Journals of the Senate
53 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2004, Canada
Journals of the Senate
3rd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 9
Monday, February 16, 2004
8:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Downe, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, Oliver, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, *Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, *Cordy, *Day, De Bané, Downe, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, *Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Gauthier presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec with respect to declaring Ottawa officially bilingual.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Orders No. 1 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill C-8, An Act to establish the Library and Archives of Canada, to amend the Copyright Act and to amend certain Acts in consequence.
The Honourable Senator LaPierre moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Motions
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Massicotte:
That the following Address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Merit of the Police Forces, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill, for the second reading of Bill S-4, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act (promotion of English and French).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 8 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, for the second reading of Bill C-250, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator LaPierre moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jaffer, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Stollery, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, for the adoption of the Second Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs (budget—study on Canada-United States and Canada-Mexico trade relationship), presented in the Senate on February 12, 2004.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Other
Order No. 2 (motion) was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:
That the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament be authorized to examine, for the purposes of reporting by March 1, 2004, all Senate procedure related to the tabling of petitions in this Chamber in Parliament assembled, that a procedural clerk, having examined the form and content, certify the petitions in accordance with established standards and that follow-up be provided for in the Rules of the Senate,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Corbin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word "That'' and substituting the following therefor:
"the history of the practice in both the Senate and the House of Commons relating to petitions other than petitions for private bills, as well as the customs, conventions and practices of the two Houses at Westminster, be tabled in the Senate and distributed to the honourable senators before being referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament.''.
After debate,
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the motion in amendment.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
Orders No. 24, 9 (motions) and 1 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On Wednesday, February 11, Senator LeBreton gave notice of an inquiry, the purpose of which was to call the attention of the Senate to the "culture of corruption pervading the Liberal government currently headed by Prime Minister Paul Martin.'' Prior to Orders of the Day, Senator Milne rose on a point of order to object to the language of the notice. Citing Marleau and Montpetit, the parliamentary authority of the other place, Senator Milne asserted that the language of the inquiry was unparliamentary and she requested that I rule it out of order.
Several other Senators offered their views on the merits of the point of order. Senator Carstairs noted the criminal implications in using the word corruption. Senator Cools also noted the imputation and underlying motivations being attributed to unnamed individuals. Senator Robichaud, for his part, found the use of the phrase "culture of corruption'' both offensive and provocative. Senator Kinsella, on the other hand, citing supporting references from the Auditor General's report on the activities of Government Services Canada, found the word "corruption'' perfectly acceptable. This view was shared by Senator Di Nino who noted that the phrase "culture of corruption'' was being used in the other place with apparent impunity.
Following final remarks by Senator Milne I agreed to review the arguments that had been made relative to the merits of the point of order. I also indicated that I would look at any precedents and authorities that might assist me in reaching a decision. I have done this and I am now prepared to make my ruling.
In considering this point of order, I am mindful of the role I have as Speaker. My task, as I see it, is to assist the members of this Chamber in the pursuit of their parliamentary duties by permitting the greatest possible latitude in debate. At the same time, however, I am obliged by the Rules of the Senate to maintain order and decorum in this place. Without this order, which is essential to the proper conduct and dispatch of business, it would be much more difficult for all Senators to exchange views and reach decisions.
Without exception, every parliamentary institution, whether the "other place'' or assemblies and legislatures across the country and throughout the Commonwealth, must deal with the matter of orderly debate and unparliamentary language. In the Senate, rule 51 prohibits "all personal, sharp or taxing speeches.'' This rule has been part of our practice since 1867. In addition, as a preemptive measure, rule 64 provides that "a notice containing unbecoming expressions or offending against any rule or order of the Senate shall not be allowed by the Speaker to appear on the Order Paper.
The 6th edition of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, a standard Canadian authority for many years, provides a list of words or expressions which involved an intervention by the Speaker of the other place because they were considered by some members to be intemperate or unparliamentary. Among the words listed on page 149 is the word "corrupt.'' In reviewing Beauchesne's further, I found, as a cautionary note, a passage indicating that "no language is, by virtue of any list, acceptable or unacceptable. A word which is parliamentary in one context may cause disorder in another context, and therefore is unparliamentary.'' This then is one guide which I have used in sorting out the merits of this point of order.
Last May, an event occurred in the Senate which relates in some measure to what the Senate is confronting now. During its study on code of conduct, the Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament heard from a witness who made a reference to the public perception of corruption in government and in Parliament. Senator Carstairs, then the Leader of the Government, made a reference to these remarks which led to numerous exchanges between the Senator and others in this Chamber including Senator Lynch-Staunton, the Leader of the Opposition. While no one sought the retraction of the word on the basis of its unparliamentary nature, it clearly offended many and led to numerous pointed exchanges. My purpose in mentioning this incident is that the word "corruption'' does convey a charged meaning and should only be used with caution.
The Senate has a tradition of being generous in the opportunities it allows members to present motions and inquiries for debate. In this respect, the Senate remains true to its early history and its fundamental purpose. It is easy for Senators to initiate debate on virtually any topic of concern to them. Given this liberty, I would suggest that Senators have a responsibility to draft their motions and inquiries in such a way that would not likely provoke unnecessary disorder. This is not to deny the right of all Senators to a vigorous debate with contending views and exchanges strongly expressed. Rather, it is an admonition to avoid rancour and bitterness that are clearly counterproductive to the healthy exercise of free expression.
Even though I have the authority as Speaker under rule 64 to disallow the inquiry that was proposed by Senator LeBreton, I do not feel it would be in keeping with the traditions of the Senate to actually exercise this authority in this case. Instead, I will rely on the good judgment of Senators who choose to participate in this debate to refrain from using any language that is unparliamentary in its context.
It is my ruling, therefore, that the inquiry proposed by Senator LeBreton is in order.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to hear from time to time witnesses, including both individuals and representatives from organizations, on the present state and the future of agriculture and forestry in Canada;
That the committee submit its final report no later than June 30, 2004.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to examine the issues related to the development and marketing of value-added agricultural, agri-food and forest products, on the domestic and international markets;
That the papers and evidence received and taken on the subject during the Second Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament be referred to the Committee;
That the Committee submit its final report to the Senate no later than June 30, 2004, and that the Committee retain until July 31, 2004 all powers necessary to publicize its findings.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance to which was referred Bill C-212 on February 11, 2004, be also referred the papers and evidence received and taken on the subject and the work accomplished by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Banks, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth:
That the papers and evidence received and taken by the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications during its study of Bill S-26, An Act concerning personal watercraft in navigable waters, in the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament and the papers and evidence received and taken during the Second Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament during the study of Bill S-10, An Act concerning personal watercraft in navigable waters, be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources for its study of Bill S-8, An Act concerning personal watercraft in navigable waters.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Northern Pipeline Agency, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Northern Pipeline Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-26, ss. 13 and 14.—Sessional Paper No. 3/37- 36.
Copy of Order in Council P.C. 2003-1228 dated August 13, 2003, concerning the Agreement on Social Security between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Italian Republic, pursuant to the Old Age Security Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. O-9, sbs. 42(1).—Sessional Paper No. 3/37- 37.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 10:24 p.m. the Senate was continued until 2:00 p.m. tomorrow.)